The double quotations are my comments, to my statements, Tanin has given answers very cleverly. I liked his patience, determination and his stubbornness. I like this qualities in Him. Any more questions you have? I have posted this because in the conclusion he accepted that there is God, but chances are very very slim. Thank God, he did. I believe in God, you like it or not.
My sleep is asynchronous to your timezone.
"Well, I believe in God because of logic only, but you never consider my point. I mean, I have experienced some illogical things, got help at correct time, precisely at the perfect second and so on..."
- That only proves you got help at the right time. Many people do not get help at the right time and die. It doesn't prove anything about the existence of a god.
"Agreed, probability, in that case probability of God's existence is 50 and 50. Why deny this probability?"
- Actually, the probability of the existence of gods is not 50/50. For example, if I claim that I can fly by flapping my arms, the probabilities of this being NOT true is far grater than the probability of this claim being true. Just because something can be true or false, does not mean that the claim has a 50/50 chance of being true. You may want to study probability theory in order to understand this.
"What's the nature? Define it please, you are so patient. I love that property of yours."
- Nature is everything in the universe that is objectively observable by any means.
"Why not? I believe that I love my dad and mom a lot and lot and it's real to me as well as to my parents."
- You love your parents because your parents are real and your relationship with them is real as well. For some reason, you're flipping this logic around for god. You're saying that a god exists because you love it. In our Universe nothing exists just because you love it. Things needs to exist first. For example, let's say that I would love to own a small Island. I love that thought, but the thought alone doesn't make my dream island a real thing. It's still just a thing in my head.
"Name1: Universe"
- The universe is the word used for the physical world. How is that proof for the existence of gods? Everything we've learned about the universe so far points to the fact that there are no gods in reality.
"Does Universe answer you to this question?"
- No
"God proved it, only if you are willing to agree it. If some one helps you and you say it's his responsibility as a human, and strike off his help as a humanity then you will never find a human who helps others. You can then say no one helps and 'helping others' is a myth. Now please don't ask me when he proved. "
- Reality does not require you to agree with it and has no obligation to make you feel better. It exists independent of subjective opinions. And we helped each other before humans came up with gods. If we didn't help each other, we would not have survived as a species. Empathy and altruism are evolved traits that enable many social beings to cooperate and mutually survive. No gods are needed for that either.
"How egg?"
- Gradual genetic recombination, genetic drift, mutations and environmental selections evolved some species of dinosaurs to birds. Since mutational changes happen during conception, the egg would be the start. (chickens are birds too) The chicken and egg question is silly from an evolutionary perspective. It's like placing stones on a table as with each stone placed ask the question "Is this a pile?" At what point is it a pile? 5 stones? 10 stones? 12 stones? The change is gradual. The same applies to biological changes. Evolution is so gradual that it's not useful to ask when one species becomes another.
"I understood your point Tanin, but you did not. You are saying that, "there are things that science not yet defined, in fact yet to discover, so please wait until that . . . before things are mysterious and I cannot attribute it to the God's miracle.""
- There is no good reason to attribute any mystery or unknown thing to a god figure. In science it is perfectly fine to say "I don't know (yet)". History has taught us that attributing things we don't understand to gods is counter productive in our search for knowledge and always leads to failures of thought and disappointment.
"So what if the science reaches to a saturation point and then comes to conclusion that this all complex things, universe, galaxy, solar systems, earth, humans, are beyond anything or any one.
Well, it's a probability, that Science can reach God. Doesn't it? Assuming (assume, in Mathematics assumption is first step, so not a problem please assume for now ) that God exists?"
- The problem with that assumption is that we already know too much about the Universe to assume that. It's like saying "What if we discover that the reason thunder strikes is too far beyond anyone" Well, we already know why thunder strikes. That assumption is unnecessary.
Science has never, ever, ever moved towards a position where the existence of gods becomes more probable. Every single assumption made about the universe by religious people has been proven to be false, pushing the belief in gods back to ever smaller places. The Earth is not at the center of the Universe, the Earth was not made in a week by a god, the night sky is not a curtain, women are not made from ribs, humans evolved like all the other creatures on this planet, diseases are not curses or punishments but the result of bacterial or viral infections or other natural causes, etc, etc, etc. Religion and god-belief has always been on the losing end. Never in the 7000 year history of religions has a god been proven to do anything. Even in the developing world, these facts are becoming harder and harder to ignore.
"Is there a chance or say probability? I know you are not blindly wont say no probability of God's existence."
- There isn't a place for gods in reality. Only in fantasy. It's like asking "What are the odds that invisible flying horses exist?". Very, very slim.
By Tanin Ehrami
My sleep is asynchronous to your timezone.
"Well, I believe in God because of logic only, but you never consider my point. I mean, I have experienced some illogical things, got help at correct time, precisely at the perfect second and so on..."
- That only proves you got help at the right time. Many people do not get help at the right time and die. It doesn't prove anything about the existence of a god.
"Agreed, probability, in that case probability of God's existence is 50 and 50. Why deny this probability?"
- Actually, the probability of the existence of gods is not 50/50. For example, if I claim that I can fly by flapping my arms, the probabilities of this being NOT true is far grater than the probability of this claim being true. Just because something can be true or false, does not mean that the claim has a 50/50 chance of being true. You may want to study probability theory in order to understand this.
"What's the nature? Define it please, you are so patient. I love that property of yours."
- Nature is everything in the universe that is objectively observable by any means.
"Why not? I believe that I love my dad and mom a lot and lot and it's real to me as well as to my parents."
- You love your parents because your parents are real and your relationship with them is real as well. For some reason, you're flipping this logic around for god. You're saying that a god exists because you love it. In our Universe nothing exists just because you love it. Things needs to exist first. For example, let's say that I would love to own a small Island. I love that thought, but the thought alone doesn't make my dream island a real thing. It's still just a thing in my head.
"Name1: Universe"
- The universe is the word used for the physical world. How is that proof for the existence of gods? Everything we've learned about the universe so far points to the fact that there are no gods in reality.
"Does Universe answer you to this question?"
- No
"God proved it, only if you are willing to agree it. If some one helps you and you say it's his responsibility as a human, and strike off his help as a humanity then you will never find a human who helps others. You can then say no one helps and 'helping others' is a myth. Now please don't ask me when he proved. "
- Reality does not require you to agree with it and has no obligation to make you feel better. It exists independent of subjective opinions. And we helped each other before humans came up with gods. If we didn't help each other, we would not have survived as a species. Empathy and altruism are evolved traits that enable many social beings to cooperate and mutually survive. No gods are needed for that either.
"How egg?"
- Gradual genetic recombination, genetic drift, mutations and environmental selections evolved some species of dinosaurs to birds. Since mutational changes happen during conception, the egg would be the start. (chickens are birds too) The chicken and egg question is silly from an evolutionary perspective. It's like placing stones on a table as with each stone placed ask the question "Is this a pile?" At what point is it a pile? 5 stones? 10 stones? 12 stones? The change is gradual. The same applies to biological changes. Evolution is so gradual that it's not useful to ask when one species becomes another.
"I understood your point Tanin, but you did not. You are saying that, "there are things that science not yet defined, in fact yet to discover, so please wait until that . . . before things are mysterious and I cannot attribute it to the God's miracle.""
- There is no good reason to attribute any mystery or unknown thing to a god figure. In science it is perfectly fine to say "I don't know (yet)". History has taught us that attributing things we don't understand to gods is counter productive in our search for knowledge and always leads to failures of thought and disappointment.
"So what if the science reaches to a saturation point and then comes to conclusion that this all complex things, universe, galaxy, solar systems, earth, humans, are beyond anything or any one.
Well, it's a probability, that Science can reach God. Doesn't it? Assuming (assume, in Mathematics assumption is first step, so not a problem please assume for now ) that God exists?"
- The problem with that assumption is that we already know too much about the Universe to assume that. It's like saying "What if we discover that the reason thunder strikes is too far beyond anyone" Well, we already know why thunder strikes. That assumption is unnecessary.
Science has never, ever, ever moved towards a position where the existence of gods becomes more probable. Every single assumption made about the universe by religious people has been proven to be false, pushing the belief in gods back to ever smaller places. The Earth is not at the center of the Universe, the Earth was not made in a week by a god, the night sky is not a curtain, women are not made from ribs, humans evolved like all the other creatures on this planet, diseases are not curses or punishments but the result of bacterial or viral infections or other natural causes, etc, etc, etc. Religion and god-belief has always been on the losing end. Never in the 7000 year history of religions has a god been proven to do anything. Even in the developing world, these facts are becoming harder and harder to ignore.
"Is there a chance or say probability? I know you are not blindly wont say no probability of God's existence."
- There isn't a place for gods in reality. Only in fantasy. It's like asking "What are the odds that invisible flying horses exist?". Very, very slim.
By Tanin Ehrami
No comments:
Post a Comment